Talk:Hollow Man

Armoured Hollow Men

Has anybody noticed that the helmets of the armoured Hollow Men appear to be wearing helmets similar in design to the Guard caps worn in the original Fable? It looks like a cross between a Guard cap and a lobster-tailed pot helmet from the English Civil War, with added crest. Could they be a variant of the Albion Guard between Fable 2 and Fable 1? 86.133.241.48 04:54, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Honestly I fail to see any resemblance between a metallic helmet and a leather/cloth cap used in the Guard Uniform. For now, I shall remove the trivia from the article, and leave discussion of whether it is accurate here, like a debate. This will allow the consensus to vote/give their opinion as to whether they agree with you or disagree. The helmet is more based on the Spanish Conquistador helmet as seen here, and referenced in the trivia already. However, that is my opinion and until the rest of the Fable Wiki community put in their opinions, the trivia should remain out for now.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 03:59, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't look anything like a morion though, it's a totally differenty style. In point of actual fact it's more reminiscent of the helmet of what is called a "dragoon", a type of mounted soldier from a few centuries later than Conquistadors. It's just a metal Guard cap with crest. Which makes sense since they're in tattered uniform remnants and the only standing army that Albion has was the Guard. I took the liberty of providing a side-by-side comparison as evidence and proof of my claims. It can plainly be seen that the helmet is an evolution of the Guard cap.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.241.48 (talk) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~ 86.133.241.48 04:54, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

The only resemblance between the guards cap and the hollow men helmet is they both have the brim sticking out the front, nothing more nothing less. The guards cap has a neck-guard flap, yet the hollow men helmet doesn't. The Hollow Men helmet has a solid brim around the back instead. And I didn't say it looks exactly like the Conquistador helmet, just based around it. Although I do think it resembles the Roman legion helmet, minus the fur. The guard cap more resembles a modern day cap worn mostly in schools to protect children from sunburn on the back of the neck. And please remember to sign your posts, I've added a template for a signature to your last posts.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 03:19, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

The only resemblance? That's basically the only two features of that helmet alongside the crest. The peak "cap" styling with neckguard. We saw a similar design with Welley's Soldier Outfit. The helmet of the Hollow Men is very obviously an evolution in both design and protection over the original Guard cap. Looks to me that the Hollow Men are corpses of Guards from sometime between Fable 1 and Fable 2 because they're stylised to look like Roundheads or as you say Conquistadors, which in terms of time period falls somewhere between the Middle Ages and the Enlightenment (so the Renaissance I guess), much like the eras that Fable 1 and 2 appear to be set in. Besides, who else would it be? I just think it's worth mentioning that some thought was put into the skeletons and that they tie into Albion's history more than you might think. 86.133.241.48 04:54, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

A flaw in your theory though. You are using the picture of a hollow man from Fable III/Journey which does not correspond with the fact you are claiming them to be the dead guards from a time between Fable and II. The fact that the Hollow Men from Fable II are designed like skeletal villagers adds to this. Besides, any bones the wisps would need to access would have to be from a short time period prior to Fable II as if I recall my old human biology classes, human bones decompose over a 10 year period. And for them to be a guard from within that time range, they'd have to have similar outfits to the guards present in Fable II. If anything, the helmet you used from those photos would be a dead Welley's soldier, not a guard from Fable. However, as I stated in my first post, if you can get a consensus agreeing that it is such then it can be added to the page.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 06:47, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Any discrepencies between the Hollow Men from Fable 2 and 3 could be reasonably explained away by change of location or something so trivial as a design choice although it's a good point. In regards to human bone decomposition I doubt that Lionhead cared much for the intricacies of bone deterioration rate. I think the design point is the best explanation because in Fable 3 they paid much more attention to the Guard and really fluffed them out a bit, in terms of how they look and their general story. It's plausible to assume they did the same with the Hollow Men, to really give the world of Fable 3 a palpable sense of it's own history. What better way of doing that than having you fight the corpses of Guards from an earlier era? I'm hard pressed to think of who else they could be given that they appear to be uniformed soldiers, and from their armour the time period most likely seems to be between Fable 1 and 2. 86.133.241.48 07:04, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Actually the guards in Fable III are the royal soldiers who replaced the old guard, hence the need for an upgraded appearance. Besides that, they couldn't really have the old guards due to the new development style, it'd look out of place to have bulky guards who look like they just won a pie eating contest. It is plausible that Albion was invaded between the years of the games, just because we the player don't get to go much outside Albion doesn't mean there isn't a whole world. But lets go with it ignoring the development styles, using the fact that the Ablion Army in Fable III is an upgrade from the old guards. Why would the hollow men in Fable II be villagers, yet the hollow men in Fable III are soldiers? Why would the wisps choose to use unarmoured skeletons rather then accessing the guards and looking as they did in Fable III and onwards? Looking at things in that angle, I'd have to say the invasion idea looks good. It could be how Walter fought beside Sparrow, something that was never actually looked into by the games. It mentions they fought side by side in a battle, heck Walter later even said that him and his platoon were trapped by enemy soldiers, soldiers that could be from outside Albion. To me, to work on this requires more speculation then it does fact. Unless a developer from Lionhead gave a statement that they did such. However, as is the normal way of things here, a consensus is open for vote. If people agree with your idea, it shall be put on the article page. Otherwise its noted here for people to use as a theory for their personal ideas when either roleplaying or making fan fiction.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 07:19, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Alpha Lycos, they look different. You have also to consider that Hollow Men's helmets are metallic, while the guard cap isn't. --M3t4lxxx ^{(Leave me a message)} 07:57, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Actually the red coated soldiers you see in Fable 3 *are* the Guard, their duties have just diversified as they've moved with the times. Much like how modern Grenadiers don't just lob grenades any more, and Dragoons aren't cavalrymen/horse mounted infantry. As to their helmets being metal and the caps being cloth; why would that even matter? Classical Greek helmets were based on cloth hats more often than not, such as the Pileus, Boeotian and Phrygian variants. The helmet of the Hollow Men and the cloth cap of the Guard bear striking similarities. I already explained why the Hollow Men in Fable 1, 2 and 3 would differ. Mere design choice on the part of the developers. Like the discrepencies shown with Hobbes, and how the developers can't decide if they're naturally occurring mudmen or child mutants. Not gonna lie, the invasion angle is plausible and appealing but it's something of a stretch when the answer could be as simple as "the Hollow Men corpses are former Guardsmen". 86.133.241.48 09:26, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

The helmet's material counts, since the only guards wearing a metallic helmet are Elite Soldiers, but their helmet is really different from the ones of Hollow Men. Otherwise, we'll have to assume that after Fable II, guards were given metallic helmets which were later replaced by shakos. Also Hollow Men have metallic armour, which no guard has ever had. --M3t4lxxx ^{(Leave me a message)} 09:48, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Your argument is terrible. Assuming that they are indeed guards, they're guards of a different era and with a different uniform, that's all. That of the Renaissance, or at least Albion during it's similar phase. You're presupposing some kind of chronic metal shortage in Albion, which is ofc patently absurd. The Hollow Men are most likely just corpses of Guards from that particular era in Albion's timeline. Elaborating on that, it's possible that they could even be prototypical Royal Army soldiers. A New Model Army, as it were. The soldiers of that army look remarkably like the Hollow Men, wouldn't you say? 86.133.241.48 10:50, September 3, 2013 (UTC)